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". To change the shooters perspective and in effect reduce target area, we staggered the targets. If the general shape of Springfields PDW looks a little familiar to you, theres a reason for that. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - First AR15 purchase; SIG M400 TREAD v. Springfield Saint Victor? Honestly, theres not a ton to ballyhoo on the pistol other than it runs, dependably so. During our action tests, we found the fixed front sight a little distracting, even though we had it aligned (co-witnessed) with our Romeo4 red-dot sight. Caliber: 300 AAC Blackout-MSRP: 1015. The trigger presented a crisp break at about 7.6 pounds of resistance with barely an ounce or two in variation from shot to shot. The selector switch is bilateral and works just fine. Short and sweet, the 5.5-inch barreled MCX Rattler is as compact as 300 Blackout pistols come. Another latecomer to AR manufacturing, Ruger has proven fast in picking up the rules of the game. June 22nd, 2017, 09:15 PM #2. . In use, it seemed to all but disappear. At the rear of the receiver, youll see the Maxim Defense SCW brace. The SIG MCX Rattler is an incredibly handy rifle thats easy to conceal. Decibels dont drop like flies with every load. Thank you for that information, I really needed to know that. The AR pistol is a platform of many uses. Concerning these small-but-potent arms, they're pretty dang slick in 5.56 NATO, but sing when chambered 300 Blackout. I bought a Tread on a whim. Sig Sauer. Of course, given the Rattlers short barrel, some gel testing was in order. It was too short. Even though the Victor has a 9-inch barrel (1:7 twist), the last feature is a nice piece of mind. Has anyone actually tried the omega 9k on the rattler? check out the, Welcome to the Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association Forum, we hope you like what you find here and we strongly encourage you to. then they had the new CZ 75 Tactical Sport 2 Blue in $1,699 . MSRP: $949; ruger.com. Whereas releasing the bolt is aided by the larger platform, setting the lock means pressing down on the smaller end. He is a gun owner and avid reloader from Colorado. In fact, it wasnt that long ago that SIG was in a similar position. This test was performed cold, one and done with no makeups. But upon closer inspection, we noticed that the safety and magazine release were ambidextrous. All Rights Reserved. Joe Kurtenbach and Caleb Giddings also look at the first-ever optics-ready carry revolvers with the new Taurus 605 and 856 T.O.R.O. On the M400, there is an extension that adds surface area in an L-shape, making it much easier to operate. Essentially, this makes the suppressors job easier, since it has less expanding gas to dissipate. Its truly impressive. I have a sig elite which is similar to the tread, no issues solid rifle. The upper circumference was reduced, guiding the index finger to the trigger. Bought separately, the SCW (with this H3 buffer) retails for $590. The handguard is crap, but I replaced mine with one I found here on the EE. The BCM Gunfighter buttstock offered sleek lines with no protruding levers that might catch on gear, such as the straps of a chest rig. The TaurusTX 22 Compact delivers class-leading reliability, capacity, and shootability in a 22 LR platform, and it's cut for a slide-mounted mini red dot. Type: Semi-Auto Pistol. As such, the challenge for Springfield Armory was to offer an AR-15 that distinguished itself from the competition and was affordably priced. Introduced in 2015, the MCX is essentially a larger, rifle-caliber version of Sig Sauers pistol-caliber MPX. American Shooting Centers is a public range, and placing the rifle in the racks during cease fires with the bolt locked open required care because any impact to the buttstock would release the bolt. All remaining rounds produced 1-inch groups. My wife surprized me with a Birthday gift this year the new CZ TS2 Blue . The Rattler runs a very dependable gas-piston system, which eliminates all the fouling typical in these short-barreled configurations. The 194-grain Lehigh Defense ME bullet was the only subsonic to expand. This is why the gun world is awash in top-notch 300 Blackout pistols. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Supporter+. Target-left was placed 5 yards downrange, target-right 7 yards downrange, and the center target 10 yards downrange. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. While many people often think of AR pistols as just short-barreled carbines, in this case, the pistol appellation is quite apt. As for Springfields PDW, it is an AR, so it has familiar controls. Building on the popularity of the company's Rattler in 300 BLK, SIG Sauer introduced a new model chambered in 5.56 NATO for 2019. . You have entered an incorrect email address! Compare. So had to go home and think about it , while driving she asked which one I liked , i like them all but of course . At first glance, the $1250 SIG Sauer RM400 Classic looked like a standard model with only a flat-top rail above the receiver to break up the profile. The barrel is only 5.5 inches longsomething unthinkable with a direct-impingement AR. So move along . Not as expensive as their Carbon Fiber wrapped Barrel model, but probably my most costly AR15 to date. Joe Kurtenbach, Executive Editor of Gun & Ammo, and John Myles from Smith & Wesson discuss features of the Equalizer 9mm micro-compact pistol and new-for-2023 M&P 5.7. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. Following the success of its initial collaboration with Vertx, Premier Body Armor announces its continued partnership. I used two suppressors with the Rattler. What sets the SIG MCX Rattler apart? If the buttstock was somewhat stubborn to move, it was nevertheless rock solid and more comfortable than most. The Tread was $799.00 and the Saint was $849.00. Maybe i'll sell the .308 if they ship me a new replacement and get an M1A instead, but i'm not exactly dying to give that money right back to them after this fiasco. He called it a stutter. I got several other Sigs (all calibers of P320, P365, P365xl, Xfive P320 Legion, and recently P226 Legion). No problems except for the gas blowback. We really liked the handguard. Cookie Notice However, the company Match Duo, with a 5.5 break, does a much better job of getting the most out of the pistol. Top 300 Blackout Pistol Options For Every Budget, 5 Best AR-10 Options You Can Actually Afford (2023), Best .380 Pistol Options For Deep Carry (2023), 8 On-Target Concealed Carry Insurance Options (2022), 10 Affordable Double-Barrel Shotgun Options (2022), Best AR-15 Options For Any Budget And Buyers Guide (2022), Best Concealed Carry Handguns For Women (2022). The rear-sight assembly (sometimes referred to as BUIS or backup iron sight) was a flip-up design. My wife said I'm going to buy me a new gun which one do you think the Blue or Orange . While chambered in 5.56 NATO, the Springfield Armory Saint Edge PDW has but a 5.5-inch barrel. The bottom of the grip was removable, and there were fittings to hold popular batteries such as the CR123 or AA inside. As a result of this solicitation, SIG Sauer designed the MCX Rattler, and Maxim Defense came out with the PDX. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. At first glance, I thought the PDW was ridiculous in both appearance and performance. One by-product of this arrangement was an extension of the lower portion of the bolt lock/release lever. Learn how your comment data is processed. Eight major concealed carry insurance programs are now available to the millions of Americans who carry concealed. To order a copy and subscribe, visitoutdoorgroupstore.com. Now we've got Springfield's PDW in a similarly sized envelope, namely albeit chambered in 5.56 NATO. After all, the eminently suppressible, hard-hitting .30-caliber was tailored for such gunscarbine and smaller that is. It began in earnest in the late 1980s. Taylors & Company FS Tactical 1911: Now in 10mm! Many contend a 1:8 twist will stabilize heavy subsonic bullets. More money for ammo, Fsatureless affords full capacity magazines, @bamaengineer may i ask why you would choose the Sig over the Saint? I wrote SilencerCo another letter, under a different email. Colt Model 1861 Special Musket: What's Its Value? Definitely looking at the Sig, but having a hard time forking over that much money. There was, however, a relief on each side of the handguard about 2.5 inches ahead of the receiver for attaching a quick detach (QD) button-style sling loop. The Springfield Armory Saint Edge PDW brings to mind a saying from Rush Limbaugh: Illustrating absurdity by being absurd. It offers, at least when compared to a standard rifle/carbine, compromised ballistics and a nearly comical appearance, and I havent done executive protection work in quite some time. Furthermore, the gun is outfitted with Wilsons proprietary handguard, a fairly light affair that is M-Lok compatible and features a 4-inch accessory rail, as well as quick-detachment sling mounts. Both of them are chambered in uncommon, proprietary bottleneck cartridges, the 5.7x28mm and 4.6x30mm, respectively. You got the CZ shadow 2 orange is it 9mm or 40 cal. Given the paperwork and money you spent on the can, is it worth testing twist-rates theories yourself? Purely on the rifle's features / traits wise, Update: im being told that both rifles are available for ~$1000 should I wait; i guess the extra $$$ is demand / price gouging for the saint. But I also own several Springfields (M1As in 308 & 6.5cm, Saint Ar15 when it first came out, compact XDe, XDs & XD Mod2 all in 45s, TRPs in 45 & 10mm and the now discontinued Range Officer in 45). At the Impact Zone Range, our rifles shared a $420 1x20mm SIG Sauer Romeo 4b Compact Scope with a tiny 2-minute-of-angle red dot. Additionally, the gun has one of the best brace systems going, a fast-deploying affair that cuts the size of the firearm nearly in half when folded in. If you need a discreet weapon for 100-yard engagements, its perfect. The Judge has been promoted! Some of these extras include a top-end self-lubricating nickel-boron trigger, suppressor-ready heavy tungsten buffer, adjustable SB Tactical SBA3 brace and forward hand stop. A few times the bolt wouldnt lock back after firing the last round with the SilencerCo Omega 9K in place. Barrels with twist rates of 1:8 inches and even 1:7 inches have replaced the original-issue lands and grooves that spun the bullets at a rate of 1:9. To test this, I fed the PDW Black Hills 77-grain TMK load in addition to more traditional offerings. Just Got this in my e-mail . So, as you can see, this is the ultimate platform for a protective detail, SWAT operations where concealability is paramount, or vehicle or home defense with responsible citizens. Springfield Armory of Illinois has been producing its own versions of the iconic M1A rifle for many years, but Springfield, like several other manufacturers, is known primarily as makers of handguns, or for that matter bolt-action rifles. The buttstock was properly applied and showed only the slightest wiggle. To this end, the Protector boasts Wilsons excellent M2 two-state TTU trigger, factory set to between 4.5 to 5 pounds. But there is hope for me after seeing the new SnakeBite Tread 5.56 . PDWs are an established, in-between class of firearm. The Saint was the only carbine in the test that listed a heavy tungsten buffer among its specs, and it showed by delivering less felt recoil to the shooter. Subscriber Services. Bob Meinert, FN Marketing Director, introduces FN's first commercial pistol suppressor, the FN Rush 9Ti. Jacketed bullets can fragment at higher velocities due to high twist rates. Both companies have reputations for occasional issues with their QC, but Sig certainly produces a higher tier product overall. We also liked the bead-blast finish on the barrel. It will likely go through a threat up close (given no contact with bone), but most of its work is done before exiting. (Tie) B&T .45 2. The barrel is tipped with a special version of Maxim Defenses interesting Hate Brake. All in, our CMMG rifle displayed 1-MOA accuracy on average for all shots fired, despite our difficulties with the trigger. Modern PDWs are often designed to be able to penetrate soft body armor with armor-piercing (AP) ammo. Now more are jumping into the AR-15 market. With the stock folded, the gun is only 16 inches long, making it the shortest 300 Blackout weapon on the market. Get 12 Issues a year of the country's best firearms writing. I've handled a Saint, and I would definitely go with the Sig. The Barnes 110-grain TAC-TX had fully expanded by 7 inches, leaving a perfectly mushroomed bullet weighing 108 grains at 26 inches. The only spot on the Rattler is its trigger. Two apertures were supplied, but the larger aperture was too open, in our opinion. (Tie) LWRC Smg-45 ($3k?fuck!) The buttplate had a thin rubber pad smoothly integrated; it was more friendly to clothing or bare skin for that matter. Featuring a 5.5" PDW barrel, the MCX platform has never been more compact or accessible. Granted you give up some ballistic performance, but gain a gat easy to transport and, yes, conceal (say in a backpack). The CMMGs single-finger-groove plastic grip is almost extinct because the divider can be uncomfortable and never really seems to be in the right place. For a company many people thought was years late to the AR party, Springfield Armory has done an amazing job in seizing a substantial percentage of the AR-15 marketplace, and theyre not slowing down. AC63A5C8-2987-40EB-B654-CFB78764D21B_1530751250330.jpeg. This removed any slack between the upper and lower ends of the rifle. The first and third pics are the rifle I examined, but the second isn't. I'm a sucker for. SAINT VICTOR PIST 300BLK 30+1. I installed it on an AR carbine but ended up taking it off, because while it felt good in my hand, it just didnt look right to my eye. However, moving to the Barnes, Hornady and Lehigh Defense rounds changed things. Im looking eventually for a Tread 400 (maybe this one?). As to suppressibility, few centerfire rifle cartridges do it better. Additionally, the gun has one of the best brace systems going, a fast-deploying affair that cuts the size of the firearm nearly in half when folded in. | That said, and this being Wilson, dont expect some off-the-rack experience with the gun. Now I have Seven Springfield guns with Five Saint Victors . Garmin Tactix 7 Pro Ballistic Solar-Powered GPS Smartwatch: First Look, How to Choose the Best Scope Reticle for Your Application, Colt King Cobra Target 22LR Rimfire Revolver: New for 2022, Self-Defense Handgun and Ammo Options for People With Dexterity and Strength Issues, 5 Best Red-Dot Optics for SIG Sauer P365X & XL Pistols. Their latest addition is the Saint Edge PDW AR pistol, and Im sure it will get its large slice of the AR pie. Jeff Bradley shows off the Modern Hunting Rifle (MHR) from Christensen Arms at SHOT Show 2023. Not only did the 77-grainers shoot straight, this uber-short-barreled pistol grouped between 2.5 and 4 MOA with everything I gave it. The BCM Gunfighter grip provided a steeper angle than the others, including the Magpul grip found on the M400. But we loved the buttpad and the overall contour of the stock. Instead, its plenty accurate for its intended purpose. Since then, the company expanded the line of guns to include a range of variations that fall into three main lines. A wide selection of CMP surplus ammo will 2023 JNews - Premium WordPress news & magazine theme by Jegtheme. Higher-level shooters might prefer a hard break without overture, but its certainly not a distraction that will inhibit the experienced shooter. SAINT ARs come in a range of sizes and calibers. Sig Sauer may have the answer in the MCX Rattler PCB! What we came up with was three AR-15s with upgrades that distinguished them from more traditional models. You are using an out of date browser. This muzzle devices primary role is as a muzzle booster for short-barreled guns and PDWs. The full-profile barrel creates a line that grows from a polymer handguard by Bravo Company that was flat on the sides, adorned with sections of pebbled finish for grip. Is the Rattler a precision instrument? This round was designed to offer terminal ballistics similar to the AKs 7.62x39mm while still being compatible with AR-style rifles, requiring only a barrel change. Youll probably need hearing protection with sub- and supersonic ammo. Non-Lethal Personal & Home Defense with Byrna, Range Tested: EAA Girsan Pistols & Shotguns, New for 2023: Christensen Arms Modern Hunting Rifle (MHR), New for 2023: All-American RIA 5.0 Sporting Pistol, New for 2023: FN Rush 9Ti Pistol Suppressor, New Big Bore Pistols for 2023: FN 510 Tactical and FN 545 Tactical, New for 2023: FN SCAR 15P Rifle Caliber Pistol, First Look: Taurus Raging Hunter 460 Magnum Revolver With 10.5-Inch Barrel, New-for-2023 Taurus Judge Executive Grade 410/.45 Colt Revolver, Smith & Wesson Equalizer and the Brand New M&P 5.7 Pistol. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Gun Tests has been independently reviewing firearms since 1989. Specs and Features Parts are straight off the "recommended" list, as Saint uses an M16-profile USGI-spec bolt carrier group with a select Carpenter 158 bolt. The SIG MCX Rattler is an incredibly handy rifle that's easy to conceal. Wow just read the article on TTAG. Get the latest news and reviews from Gundigest.com. Logical on the surface, given faster twist rates are generally required for heavier bullets, but there is debate on the matter. I have a lot of love for my BCM because it was my first full build but the Saint is a great rifle off the shelf. The visual theme of the Saint was that it looks to be one piece instead of an upper and lower, or as some say, it looks monolithic. Sig Sauer has really redefined the word versatility with the MCX and MPX, and it doesnt get much better than the Rattler in close quarters. I'm looking for advice on whether to buy a Sig Sauer MCX or the Springfield Armory Saint (new free float version). That said, neither of the suppressors was really quiet. Measuring Performance A PDW is not a rifle. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. I actually sold my Sig m400 patrol 5.56 , And My Sig P320 . Im sure some of the attention it will initially get will be negative from people who feel the same way. I would deploy this as a dedicated entry rifle in a heartbeat. We also tested with 77-grain OTM 223 Remington rounds manufactured by SIG Sauer. The Springfield Armory Saint Victor .308 was announced 2 months after SIG had secured the sale with India in April 2019. Combine the heft with a quality suppressor and the Blackouts recoil is negated to next to nothing, giving the pistol excellent follow-up shot accuracy. It has a pretty decent barrel and is reliable, so I can recommend it as a solid choice. The only difference are the built in QD mounts to any other lower. I had several concerns due to its comically short barrel, its accuracy, reliability and velocity. The gas block is pinned in place. Why pay more? The Sig Sauer Rattler. I own the Springfield Saint Victor. With the provided 20-round Magpul PMAG in place, the PDW weighs 5 pounds, 10 ounces. Facing off in a handgun challenge featuring the smallest professional-grade enclosed red dot sight on the market, Eric and Tom put the Acro P-2 to the distance test by doing a walk-back challenge. To activate it from either side of the gun, I mounted its tape switch on the Rattlers Picatinny top rail. The two most well-known modern PDWs are the FN P90 and the HK MP7. Eventually, ammo manufacturers answered the call, and now dozens offer 300 Blackout loads for a variety of uses. Ah, the AR-pistol. I Have the 1st Sig's M400 Tread and it's a nice gun , It shoots great and built very good . Springfield Saint with FDE, OD Green, and Stealth Grey Rattlecan Paint Job. (Notice they fixed this on the new Edge pistol with a longer barrel.) Ruger's multi-role small frame autoloading rifle - Sear - combines AR-10 power with AR-15 Portability. The SIG MCX in a discrete platform featuring a thin, durable folding stock and a 5.5" barrel with PDW upper. Another design goal was optimized sound suppressor use, so sub- and supersonic 300 Blackout loads were developed.